In
an event hosted by the DeKalb County Chamber of Commerce and Leadership DeKalb on March 27, 2013, Interim Superintendent Michael Thurmond shares his vision with Denis O'Hayer for revitalizing the school district and restoring full accreditation.
Denis O’Hayer
Many
of you have known Michael Thurmond, if not as Interim Superintendent in
the brief time he has held the job, certainly in many of the other jobs
he has held. He has been the state director of DFCS. Prior to that he
was a state representative, former labor commissioner. But he said the
thing he's proudest of are author, historian, and a proud father of a
daughter who somehow lost her way and is now in the media. Please
welcome DeKalb's Interim Superintendent, Michael Thurmond.
Michael Thurmond
Good Morning.
Denis O’Hayer [1:55]
We'll
start just with a real tiny little question. The accreditation process
from SACS talks a lot about governance. But one of the most important
things, obviously, is to try to take what happens at the board level and
bring it down into the classroom, or keep the focus on the classroom.
What's the link among governance, board, teaching, and then ultimately
what goes on every day for every child in this county?
Michael Thurmond [2:33]
Great
question. First, I want to recognize the 4 members of our newly re
constituted board. Of course governance begins at the top. But, as you
really understand the definition and I think there was some confusion
that when SACS mentioned the issue of governance in the DeKalb County
School District, we focus almost exclusively on governance at the board
level. But, governance actually encompasses the entire organization.
It's how, not just board members interrelate to each other, but is how
we relate and communicate with every person that works in the school
district as well as all of our stake holders. So, what we've done is
taken a more holistic approach. We're reaching out through the MLA
governance center to interview various stake holders through out the
district. From the various communities, parents, teachers, with focus
groups but also some parent groups that may not have been heard from.
We're also talking to students. We're talking internally. But the
first thing we have to do is open up the lines of communication. We
have to be transparent. And in order to govern effectively, and in the
invocation this morning, I think the gentleman spoke best. The first
criteria is, in order to govern anyone first you must be willing to
listen and you have to communicate the fact that you will respect the
opinion of all people even those that may not necessarily disagree with.
Denis O’Hayer [4:00]
One
of the things and Arnie mentioned the conversation I had with
Oglethorp's president, Dr Lawrence Shawl. It was yesterday, he brought
up what we were just talking about. The link between governance and
student achievement and his argument was certainly the new board members
will help with the governance and getting that going, but he's not sure
how directly they can affect what goes on in the classroom. DeKalb has
tried to get off of an achievement plateaus, so how do you then put all
of those together so that achievement goes up. Listening is a start,
but what specifically do you have in mind to work on what happens in the
classroom.
Michael Thurmond
Well
this board and myself has set improving academic achievement as a
priority. Resolving the issues with SACS is immediate. The long term
we have to focus on redirecting our focus, attention, and resources to
improving academic performance in the classroom. We do that through
governance. Number one, and hopefully, you will hire a Superintendent
who is focused. And that has to be communicated through the senior
management, two regional Superintendents, principals, then the people
that they hire. You set the model by, and one of the things that we're
doing at the last board and even in my discussion, it's not just the
compensation about SACS. But it's about recognizing that number one, we
have an extremely diverse student population. But excepting and
believing that every child given the opportunity can achieve and can
learn. It's about refocusing priorities and the agenda in that ???
Denis O’Hayer [5:42]
What
about resources though, it's one thing to say OK we want the children
to be, each child to believe that he or she can achieve. How do you
plan to dedicate the resources and can you move things around to do
that, to get them more focused at the classroom level?
Michael Thurmond [6:00]
Well first, we have to get our fiscal house in order.
Denis O’Hayer
That's one of SACS' mandates.
Michael Thurmond
Right,
and that should be one of our mandates irrespective of SACS. We've been
granted the public trust. That requires us to manage the resources
that we have in a way that will support academic achievement and
accomplishment in our classroom. Obviously, we are suffering like every
other school district cause of a lack of resources. But that does not
excuse us from taking advantage of the resources that we do have. Think
about it, the DeKalb property digest 6 years ago was about 27 billion
dollars. Today it's roughly about 18 billion dollars. You and I know
that the primary source of revenue of any local school district is ad
valorem tax. That's had an impact. Also recognizing that the state of
Georgia, facing budget challenges, has cut local funding by several
billion dollars since the beginning of the recession. This is a
confluence of events that makes it extremely difficult to manage. But
we will not offer as an excuse what the state is doing or the state of
the economy. We have a corporation that actually oversees the
expenditures of nearly $1 billion dollars. $730 million general fund
dollars. We will do a better job of using the resources that we have to
accomplish the goals that we set. I think we've lost our way at some
point to be honest with you. We've gotten caught up into the politics
and to what I call the adult mess. We've gotta refocus our attention
from the adult mess and focus it on making sure we support the efforts
of our students.
Denis O’Hayer [7:54]
Does
that mean, specifically, moving resources from central office to
classroom? Or, is there enough really to make a difference there? Or,
at some point, do you have to, despite everything that this district has
gone through and there is a timeline on the back of your program that
gives you the recent history. Do you go to the voters and say look
we've lost property tax revenue. We're going to have to ask for a tax
increase.
Michael Thurmond [8:26]
I
don't think we can do that until we first demonstrate to the public
that we are properly managing the resources that we have. Then and only
then will we be able to ask anyone to provide additional resources. In
many instances, we need more money, but money is not necessarily the
issue. It's how we govern. It's our principles and whether we stick
with those principles. We're eliminating right now a $16 million dollar
deficit in the current fiscal year. My CFO came to me shortly after I
was appointed and stated that we think we are on track to significantly
reduce the deficit this fiscal year. But in order to be certain that we
are moving in the right direction, he recommended, and I agree, to
implement a hiring freeze across the district. But, with a caveat. The
hiring freeze will not impact teachers or indirect/direct classroom
instruction. The hiring freeze is at the central office. To me, that
??? articulating to our employees and to the broader public that we are
putting the classroom and teachers first. Even if we don't have but one
dollar, that dollar ought to be spent supporting our classrooms,
supporting our teachers, and improving academic performance.
Denis O’Hayer [9:48]
Brings
up a question that we got from the teacher point of view. DeKalb,
right now, is losing teachers to neighboring school districts. We've
had four years of furlough days in the system. So, you've got to retain
the teachers you have. The experienced teachers. Number one, do you
have a plan to retain them? And, number two, how do you evaluate the
teachers you have to make sure you have the best ones?
Michael Thurmond [10:23]
Well
that's an ongoing process. And there were non renewals this year for
some teachers who were not performing up to standard. But that's true
in any profession. You will always have individuals, for whatever
reason, who don't perform up to standards and you have to make those
decisions. But, at the same time, the reality is what it is. And, this
is what I've said as I've traveled around the district talking to
teachers. And not just teachers. And one of the things I want to
clarify. Everyone is important. Obviously our teachers are primarily
important. But, if our bus drivers don't deliver the kids to school on
time and safe, there is no school. If our cafeteria workers are not
there providing the food for breakfast and lunch for our students, it
makes it even more difficult to learn. One of the principles, one of
the ideas, one of the concepts, is that I'm communicating. There will
be no big 'I' and little 'U's. Everyone is important. And by
encouraging that type of understanding I think that ???. Being honest
with individuals. One of the challenges, one of the aha moments from
talking with many of our employees is that they have not been properly
informed or educated to understand the connection between not receiving
salary increases or increase in furlough. And, the budget crisis. And
some of you all will be surprised. But there was a disconnect between
connecting the current economic crisis with some of the financial
decisions that have been made. So, what you have to do is, you have to
be honest. Many teachers, administrators, stay members said look. This
is the first time in years we've had an opportunity to engage the
Superintendent and the senior staff in a conversation. You cannot lead
if you do not communicate. Even bad news, delivered honestly and
fairly, will generate support from the people you are trying to lead and
for the people you are trying to serve.
Denis O’Hayer [12:29]
Is there a plan right now to set up evaluation systems for, not just teachers, but then all of the folks you just talked about?
Michael Thurmond [12:38]
Well
absolutely. That's in place. There's a lot of good news and good
things occurring in DeKalb. And, two of the best things you will hear
from a two hour star student. When I was talking in a situation in a
gathering similar to this. And one of the things I encourage all
leaders and I talk to Leadership DeKalb. I had a conversation with
them. The current class who claims that they were the best class ever.
That when you go into a crisis situation, you should always avoid
deficit driven strategies. And it's not just a crisis situation, but
that's life. You've been in meetings in your community, in your church,
at your business, in your neighborhood, where you spent minutes if not
hours discussing all the things that are wrong. That is a deficit
driven strategy. I suggest that what I have adopted are asset driven
strategies. I look first at assets in a situation. And for all of my
friends that come up and offer me my condolences because I've taken this
position, I look at 'em and wonder. I really don't understand what
you're talking about. Because there are challenges and there are
problems, but the assets and the opportunities outweigh the challenges.
And one gentlemen asked, what asset do you have in DeKalb right now?
And I said, Look. First thing is we have 98,000 assets and those are
our beautiful, bright and intelligent students. And once you recognize
that, the other problems pale in comparison to the opportunities that we
have.
Denis O’Hayer [14:18]
Let's
pick up then on what you had when you came in. Dr Atkinson, when she
was here, was starting to put together a plan for the district going
forward. And, so have you had a chance to look at that? Is there
anything about it that you want to carry forward? One specific question
was, Do you have any plans to restart the DeKalb Education Foundation
which was, at least for the moment, stopped under Dr Atkinson?
Michael Thurmond [14:46]
What
I've done. I've reached out to some of our corporate friends. And as
we become more healthy in the district, we will be asking them to
support the foundation so that we can provide some non profit support
for the efforts that we are ongoing in the school system. I didn't have
the opportunity to meet Dr Atkinson. And every leader comes with a
vision, with a plan, with a program. Some strategies, some initiatives
are successful and some are not. But you can learn from both. And one
of the things I've come to understand is that you can learn more from
one failure, one defeat than you can from a thousand victories. And one
of the lessons learned, that we are engaged in right now, is that you
must communicate. And you must be transparent and you must engage all
of your stake holders, internal and external. You can't make it. The
second thing I'm learning. It's really been fascinating, the tour of
DeKalb County. Last night I was in Brookhaven. I met with the mayor
and council in Brookhaven. And the mayor, by the way, is the son of a
former colleague, Max Davis you covered in the General Assembly way back
in the '20s. Denis O’Hayer and I have been around a long time. Just
in talking to the residents of DeKalb County. North and South, East and
West, and if you listen intently and with purpose, and actively. You
can find so many opportunities for common ground. But yet, if I travel
from my house there in Stone Mountain, as I did one Sunday afternoon up
to Dunwoody. It was just a 15 minute drive. But sometimes,
politically, it felt like two thousand miles.
What we have to recognize
is that some of the dysfunction that we face at the school board is
really dysfunction in the county. And it was representative of the
dysfunction in the county. But we have to find common ground via
bridges and do what's best for our citizens and particularly our
student. We had a great meeting in Brookhaven last night. A former
state senator, Dan Weber, he has a plan that focuses on creating high
school charter systems where you really decentralize authority all the
way to the high school level. That's not necessarily my belief, but I
do believe where we do share common ground is that we are going to
decentralize some decision making, some resources from the central
office to the regional level. Right? When our Area Superintendent, Dr
Pringle, sitting there ????. We need to, I've always believed in any
situation I've gone in is that decisions made closest to the delivery of
the service of the product are better, more effective and efficient.
So, we have over centralized some of the decision making into the
central office at DeKalb. We are going to change that and you will see
evidence of that in our F.Y. '14 budget. Because we are so diverse, I
can't sit like the Wizard of Oz behind a curtain. And make decisions
about the 138 schools that serving an extremely diverse population
without input from the people who are closest to the point of delivery.
And those people are the teachers and principals, and the support staff
in the school. That will change. And I think we will end up with a
more effective school district with better results.
Denis O’Hayer [18:34]
Is
there anything in what you inherited from either Dr Atkinson or going
back to Ramona Tyson. Is there anything they did you said, We can go
forward with this? Or, are we really starting from scratch?
Michael Thurmond [18:52]
Absolutely
not. We're not starting from scratch. This is a result. What we have
today is a system that was developed over decades, decades. One of the
things, because I'm a historian, you have to really do what I call,
develop an institutional history of any and every agency. And we may
be upset or confused by a particular policy or regulation. But you have
to understand the history of that policy and the history of the
regulation even before you can determine whether or not you will
continue it or change it. So, you learn from mistakes as well as from
successes. And there have been more successes than failures, but you
have to be honest. You have to recognize it, learn from your mistake
but don't dwell on it. And that's what I'm saying to DeKalb county and
to the people I work with every day as well as the citizens. We will
learn from the mistakes that have been made and I will be the first to
admin there have been mistakes that have been made. But I'm telling
you, I'm not dwelling on them. My focus, my attentions is on the future
and doing what's best for the young people in this district. What I
encourage, and I've talked to Ernie, and we've had several conversation
and I want to thank Ernie for his leadership. And Leonardo and Diane,
who decided not just to criticize, but to engage and try to support and
assist. What we have to understand, and it's interesting, and I hear it
a lot when people say, Well you know twenty years ago, thirty years
ago, we had a great school system in DeKalb. How many times have you
heard that? And there's no question that we did. That does not prevent
us from having a great school system now. But what we have to
recognize is that the school system that existed in DeKalb 30 years ago,
that population, is not necessarily the population we are trying to
educate today. That population did not have 71% of its students
qualifying for free and reduced lunch. Just didn't. Not that children
who qualify for free and reduced lunch can't learn and can't be
successful. And I know for a fact that they can, because I qualified
for free and reduced lunch. I am a living, breathing example of the
power of public education. Right? The son, grandson, and great grandson
of 3 generations of Georgia share croppers that could not read or
write. Right? And so for people that doubt or don't believe that
public education can't be successful and is being successful every day,
look at me. Now, what I also know is that we have to be honest about
who we are. One of the most surprising things about, what I've learned
about DeKalb, nearly 20% of our student population are either English
learning or their parents speak English only as a second language if
they speak English at all. We've not engaged or understood the great
opportunities that presents. Now one of the mistakes that we did make
was that we fired all the interpreters. OK ... right? We did it. Now
that's a mistake that I will acknowledge. When 20% of your population,
and I don't know why I'm surprised, because when I was practicing law
over at ????, our office was over on the Beauford Highway. I used to
ride up and down Beauford Highway to go to lunch and I would see
Vietnamese, hispanic and the different signage and various businesses
from all over the world. I love to go to the Supermarket over there in
Clarkston. I see foods and exotic vegetables and fruits and desserts
from all over the world. And I used to wonder who's buying this? I
have no idea, it was just amazing to me. And then there's the Farmer's
Market on Beauford Hwy is even more exotic. That is because there is a
socio-economic demographic transformation taking place. Our school
district is still operating in the 20th century mode. We have not made
the transformation which we will have to make, which we are making,
which we will make because that is the future. Children 18 and under
represent 20% of the population. They represent 100% of our future.
All children. And all children with the right support and right
resources can learn and can be successful.
Denis O’Hayer [23:48]
And
you just opened the door to the elephant that is already in the room.
Which is, race and class and not just black and white as you have
already implied. The question is then, how do you keep the people who
are thinking about saying, I've got to get my kids out of the school
system because of the problems it has or because of reasons of their
own. And keep them involved and their political leaders involved to
make sure the district has the kind of support it's going to need
financially and politically to move forward.
Michael Thurmond [24:14]
That's
the question that often times and not just in DeKalb, but throughout
America. Public education is a euphemism for race and class. We
understand that. We studied the history of public education,
particularly in the South, and it's always been racially charged. From
its inception, post ???, post Civil War, Georgia, all the way up today.
Often times the steps are ordered and you don't really know how or why.
Forty two years ago I graduated from far central high school. It's
interesting. In the fall of 1970, those of you from Georgia, something
historic from the South in Georgia. That was the year we consolidated
all black school districts which were then with predominantly white
school districts. We were the first consolidated class of clark central
high school ????. I was 18 years old and that was the first time in my
life I had a conversation with a white person my age. And that was the
South. For eleven years I went to all segregated schools and the only
people I interacted with were other African Americans. During the 42
years hence, the classmates I didn't get a chance to meet or desired not
to meet when I was in high school, I've had a chance to get to know
them over the years. It's been interesting. My most famous class mate I
wanted to meet and stay in touch with was Kim Bassinger. For some
reason she does not return my calls. But we've changed. We like to
think that 40 years, and that's 4 decades, but look folks. For nearly
400 years you had nearly 250 years where African Americans were denied
any access to education. Right? Then you had another 150 years where
we were separate but equal. And in 40 years, look at how much progress
has been made. You cannot undo and change three to four hundred years
of history in 40 years. But we have to recognize and celebrate where we
are, but keep in perspective where we need to go. That's why it
doesn't bother me when I meet people who may have not evolved on the
race issue. Or may have subtle or unrecognized issues. This nation
addressing the vestiges of a history that luckily we put behind
ourselves. I don't damn anyone for it. I would challenge you to reach
out and help people to understand. You have to go to the various
communities. You have to open yourself up. That's what I've tried to
do over these 40 years and we've made progress now. What's interesting
and apt, is during those 40 years we had class reunions, but we still
had 2 class reunions. We've come a long way, but we still have a long
way to go. This young man, who was in the vanguard of this new history
of public education now has an opportunity to begin to address the
future of public education in Georgia. We might wish for the good ol'
days when it was just white folk and black folk at each other's throats.
It was simple then wasn't it. But, it's not that simple anymore. I
think this presents us with a great opportunity to change the
conversation, to be more inclusive, to open up our own minds and
attitudes, and recognize that if you're going to have a successful
business, if you're going to be a successful leader, if you're going to
be a successful anything in the 21st century, you must have skills sets
that will allow you to engage and work with and understand people of
different races, cultures, creed and ethnical and ????. You just have
to.
Denis O’Hayer [28:41]
Then
on top of that, you have people saying I need to get out of this school
district because of what's happened in the last 5 years, the last 10
years, the problems this district has. So, you've got Dunwoody talking
about leaving. How do you go about keeping folks involved because of
their moral, financial, political, support.
Michael Thurmond [29:14]
And
it's not just Dunwoody. See, I was talking to Dr Howe who is over
instruction. We look at Dunwoody and we might criticize them, but if
you really think about it. Majority to minority, is a system to move
what exceptional bright kids from a large population of kids that may
not be as equally as bright to a more segregated location. Right?
That's what that is. If you really look at it. Theme schools as well
as charter schools as well as private schools and all of those are ways
in which we are trying to deal with a problem. What I'm saying, what we
have to do know is, of course, continue to support our gifted kids.
But, at some point, we got to deal with the problem of people, young
people, students, who come from high poverty background. Right? Who may
not live in our neighborhood, who may not attend my school, or may not
even live inside my district and recognize what we have ... and it's OK
to be self interested. This is what I say to parents a lot on that
issue. You must be self interested about your children. You don't have
to apologize because you're self interested in ensuring your child gets
a good education. Should you ... no. Not to me, not anyone. But
leaders, this is what we talk about in Leadership DeKalb. You must
develop what I call enlightened self. Because enlightened self interest
will help you understand why it's important for you to be involved in
helping other people's children get a quality education. Let me tell
you why, and I love to do this. How many of you all were born, raised
and graduated from a high school in DeKalb county? Raise your hand.
Always less than 5%. That meant that the rest of us were educated
somewhere else, right? And it was paid for by taxes from other people.
You can't raise my daughter and your daughter and your children in an
enclosed, insulated bubble. I want my daughter to come of age in a
world where there are opportunities, not just for her, but also for her
friends and colleagues. Don't you? The challenge in DeKalb, and we can
do this, all we got to do. Let me tell you what we need to do to
ensure that, not only do we respond to SACS, but that we create an elite
school system. All we have to do is develop the talent to understand
the power of enlightened self interest. Be self interested about your
child. But then, and particularly as leaders develop the ability to be
legitimately concerned about the education of other people's children.
Let me tell you why. God forbid I get sick one day and have to spend
the night at DeKalb Regional or any hospital. But if I do, I want my
nurse that comes around to know how to read and write who be scribblin'
the medicine. Right? That's why it's important. If you're a business
owner, we got business people here. Think about your work force. You
want to be profitable 5, 10, 15, 20 years from now. Your future work
force is sitting in a classroom somewhere in DeKalb county. You want to
sell your widgets and your products and you need people who have the
resources and can purchase them. Your future consumers are sitting in a
classroom somewhere in DeKalb county right now.
Denis O’Hayer [32:45]
Moving
to questions. How soon will you make decisions regarding which senior
staff, from Dr Atkinson's team, will stay and which will go? We were
talking about decentralizing the central office. How soon will we have
decisions there?
Michael Thurmond [33:07]
First
of all, I allow, whenever I go into a situation, I evaluate current
personnel. The biggest mistake that leaders make, and we've seen it
over and over again in the media, is you walk in on the first day and
you fire everybody that's there. That's a horrible leadership decision.
That means I'm going to spend my first six months dealing with the
fallout from that type of decision. Plus, there are some people you
need and some people you may not need, but you have to be honest and
objective in making that evaluation.
Denis O’Hayer [33:47]
Is
there a plan to develop DeKalb county school's leaders like district
principals, or district staff principals. And teachers in alignment
with the district's priorities to advance student learning? In other
words, have you matched that up yet. The big plan with the development
of staff and the evaluations.
Michael Thurmond [34:05]
The
first effort you will see is with the F.Y. '14 budget. When you begin
to realign the resources to support the prime objective, which is to
improve academic achievement, you will see that. There's some things we
are looking at that we will change and we are changing to support that
effort. But you need a budget to support it. And the fist time I'll
have an opportunity to help to develop a budget that I can present to
our board members will be F.Y. '14.
Denis O’Hayer [34:36]
Any idea when the first draft of that will be?
Michael Thurmond [34:39]
It's
an ongoing process now. I'm meeting with my CFO. Money is tight, but I
was felt that money was never really the primary challenge. Often
times, it's the lack of will, lack of ideas, lack of innovation that
prevents all of us from being more successful than what we are now.
$750 Million dollars is still a lot of money. If you are focused and
if you are purposeful, and if you are committed to a goal or an
objective.
Denis O’Hayer [35:09]
One
question we hear a lot is, well OK. You talk about 138 schools. Do we
need fewer? Ramona Tyson had a school closure plan. School closure came
up again right before Dr Atkinson left. Is that on the table? Is
there a plan to develop which schools?
Michael Thurmond [35:30]
Actually,
we are implementing the plan that was actually developed just prior to
my coming. By the way, and I see Mr Wilkins here ???, we are currently
right now nearly over $200 million dollars in capital projects ongoing
in the district right now. We are on the cusp if we can address these
other issues, of being able to build a model 21st century school
district. A highly diverse, socio-economically demographically all the
ways you can do it successful. And I can tell you there are not many
models that will be similar to the one we have. But this is what I told
the State Board of Education. We're criticized because we're dealing
with, unfortunately the issue bubbled up. But if you live in a school
district where these issues are not being discussed, then you really
need to talk to your school leaders. Because just because you hear
about 'em and read about 'em in DeKalb, doesn't mean they don't exist
somewhere else. They have not dealt with them yet. The blessing we
have is that we have the opportunity to address them in a progressive
positive way. No apologies, but we have to learn to be honest and to
talk and do what's right for the broader community.
Denis O’Hayer [36:47]
Does that mean at this point then, fewer schools? Some will close?
Michael Thurmond [36:51]
Some
are closing, yes. Just at the last board meeting, there was a proposal
presented to the board which they approved. Coming up we are building
three new, seven new elementary schools. 3 of them will start this year
in 2013.
Denis O’Hayer [37:08]
One
question from the audience. What efforts will be made to expand
successful academic programs like early college that significantly
increase the likelihood of high school to college. You've got some
successful models that are operating right now.
Michael Thurmond [37:25]
We
do. And I know Georgia Perimeter College is here and they have
administered one of those successful models. We have to continue to
support the things that are working, but we also have to recognize that
success is not just going to college. There has to be multiple avenues
to success. I was looking at a study just last week. Nationally, only
20% high school graduates go and graduate from a liberal arts ???
institute. We have to recognize there are technical opportunities,
technical colleges, two year colleges, proprietary colleges, that offer
avenues of success for our children. As a labor commission I can tell
you something. Those young people and if you choose college, great.
There's nothing wrong with that. But we have to recognize that not
every student may or shouldn't choose college. Right? My parents, 20
years ago, 40 years ago, 50 years ago, all they told us was Go to
college. You gotta go to college son. They never talked to me about
what the major is. But in that economy, a college degree was almost a
guarantee for employment. Right? So, I went to college and I got a
degree in philosophy and religion. There were no job openings for
philosophers when I got out of college. But, the reality is that
technical arenas, even as automobile technician, heating and air, those
jobs, many of them pay high salaries. so, we have to learn to celebrate
our young people who choose these alternative paths, just as much as we
celebrate those who decide to go to college and do well. That's my
thought.
Denis O’Hayer [39:13]
The
CEO has joined us. Welcome Mr Ellis. Good to have you. Are there
collaborative operational opportunities, talking about money and
innovation, that you can foresee between the school system and the
DeKalb county government? Whether it's like fleet management or working
in collaboration with some of the county departments or police and
sheriff. What kind of opportunities are there if any?
Michael Thurmond [39:45]
The
CEO and County Commissioner, I have met with him on more than one
occassion, several. I guess 10 days ago I went and we talked to and met
with board members, members of the DeKalb county commission. We all
agree that the relationship had not been what it should be. More
important than that than belaboring the past, we all committed to work
closely together to do what's in the best interest of the children and
the tax payers and the citizens of this county. I've been very
impressed by the outreach and honesty and sincere ??? I received from
the CEO as well as the members of the county commission. And the DeKalb
county delegation. Republican and Democrat. Let me just say it,
Republican and Democrat have all come forward and offered and are
working with us to overcome the challenges that we face.
Denis O’Hayer [40:38]
Then
one key here, in addition to the leadership, is the parents. That
brings up the next question. How do we get the parents involved in the
lives of our children? That's an ongoing question in education. But
this person says, we are spending about the same amount per child as
children in private schools. So, why the difference in results?
Michael Thurmond [41:00]
First,
it's important, study after study, go on the internet when you get home
and look up parental involvement and academic achievement. Study,
study, study show that the individual who has the greatest impact a
child's academic achievement is not the Superintendent, not the school
board member, not the principal, not the teacher. The individual that
has the greatest impact on the success of a child's career are who?
Parents. Parents. Fuss all you want about school board members. But
the individual that has the greatest impact are parents. We have some
strong PTAs and parent councils in the district. But in some schools
they are very weak or nonexistent. Look at the schools where you have
the highest achievement. One of the things that almost always exist is a
strong PTA. Look at the schools that are more challenged and you find
that the PTA and the parental involvement is weak. Under Title I there
is money that can be used to support improving and strengthening
parental involvement. I was disappointed in the plan or lack of plan
that we had that focuses on or encourages parental involvement
particularly in the high poverty schools. That is going to change. We
are looking at developing a plan. Making a difference. I know what
you're saying, well some kids don't have a pair. Let me tell you.
There's an adult. There's an uncle. There's an aunt. There's big
momma. There's somebody that's interested that we can reach out to.
Even if it's not 100% of you teachin', one of the big mistakes i think
we made, we've allowed politicians like me to shift all of the burden
for educating our children on the teachers. It's just not right and the
studies show that the greatest influence is whom? Parents.
Denis O’Hayer [43:23]
So, stronger PTAs. Then what.
Michael Thurmond [43:29]
And
an administration that recognizes that you've got to have a partnership
between the school, the parent and the school in order to really be
successful. Particularly if you're dealing with young people who come
from a more challenging background. If you look at the school whether
it's North, South, East or West, whether it's Arabia Mountain or
Chamblee or Dunwoody. One of the things that are consistent, regardless
of demographics, in those schools that are succeeding and it's
successful is strong parental involvement. That's what distinguishes
the charter schools. That's the one thing I really like about charter
schools is that in order to get a child into charter school, the parent
has to commit to do what? And they wonder what it is about charter
schools. That is the critical element as to why charter schools and
public schools are successful. It's the parental involvement. And
we're gonna have to teach it. We're gonna have to understand it. And I
gotta tell you this story. One of my favorite things in life was coming
home and my dad helping me with my homework. Right? I still remember
it to this day. I can see him, even when I'm sitting of there
sometimes over in Mountain Industrial sitting with my by desk. I look
in the corner and my father who is decease, I can still see him
watching. And doing my homework. I was in middle school when my mother
told me, you know your daddy can't read or write. I was like, hold up,
wait a minute. How ... what ... he can't read or write, but he's been
helping me with reading and writing. What I've come to understand as a
parent, he could offer me no assistance, technical. But he was present.
By his present. The fact that he was present in the room. And I tell
my parents I see us when Stephenson played Martin Luther King, I see us.
Right? In the stands, shoulder to shoulder. But you also have to be
present at PTA and parent teacher conference. Children, young people
have to know it's important. I've got parents here. Your son is
sitting here today because he knows it's important to you that he is
successful in school.
Denis O’Hayer [45:39]
Quick
yes or no. Will that be one of the criteria by which you evaluate
principals for instance when it comes to looking at all of those
schools? How they have been able to increase parent involvement?
Michael Thurmond [45:57]
Yes.
What we are doing, is we are inventorying for, I think for the first
time, the relative strength or weakness of our PTAs at every school.
And that's on going. I know Dr Howard working on it. Working with Ms
Marcia Cowen who is over PTA. And those PTAs, or parent council that
are weak, we are going to come in and provide technical assistance to
support them. The teachers are already busy, so we gotta create more
resources to strengthen the parent teacher ??? who will ultimately
strengthen the classroom where our teachers are.
Denis O’Hayer [46:30]
We've
talked a lot about focusing on students now. A big part of that is
hearing from them. I want to bring up our start students who are going
to ask the Superintendent some questions. First we have Kerry Thomas
from Arabia Mountain High and Kadeem Tremble from Druid Hills High.
Kadeem Tremble [47:18]
I'm
Kadeem Tremble from Druid Hills High School. My first question to the
Superintendent, is how would you keep up teacher morale although new
teachers are working more with less pay?
Michael Thurmond [47:30]
Great
question. First, I can't offer them more pay. I can't do it. But,
survey after survey with employees, will tell you the primary reason for
dissatisfaction with their supervisor is not necessarily pay. It's not
feeling like you're appreciated. And so, since I can't offer pay, one
of the things we are doing. New Superintendents always come in with new
programs, new ideas, more work for teachers to do. I don't know
whether you all have noticed, I've not announced my new ... golden ...
you know ... quiz bang ... magic wand ... to change academics in the
district. What we are doing is inventorying to see what we can
eliminate. Some things are mandated by the federal government, some are
mandated by the state. But things that we have control over, I've
directed the people at the senior level to inventory what we are doing
and things that we can eliminate will be eliminated before we go
forward.
Kerrie Thomas [48:34]
Good
morning everyone. My name is Kerrie Thomas. I'm from Arabia Mountain
High School. My first question is, with a change in leadership
obviously there is going to be a change within the schools. What kind
of effect do you see as far as students are concerned from this year to
the next year?
Michael Thurmond [48:52]
First,
the part of the job I enjoy the most is interacting with the students.
I was at Arabia Mountain last week. I was telling somebody coming in.
It's exhilarating being around young people who have limitless
potential. One of the things I hope to be, working with my student
adviser councils, students. I want to know and be a part of their
decision making, their careers and to support them. And I want us to
enjoy what we do. I want to find employees to continue to enjoy your
work. And to recognize that your work is important and that you're
important. The attitude. There was a cloud hanging over the district
when I came. And so what we had to do early was try to lift that cloud
and let people know that we are all in it together. And the one thing I
did tell them, I will not lie to you. I will be honest. I will tell
you the truth as I see it. And one of the truths that I will tell you, I
see a way forward from the challenges that we face.
Kadeem [49:53]
To
piggy back on the question about old teahcers leaving and new teachers
coming in, what is in place to teach and train the new teachers how to
deal with classroom management and other obstacles they might face?
Michael Thurmond [50:04]
That
goes with us having a better understanding of the population that we
are serving. And then providing Dr Howe, we talked about this
yesterday. Technical support and expertise and finding schools where
it's working. Asset driven strategies. Find those schools that are
succeeding and model and emulate what they are doing and allow them to
teach and train other teachers and principals how to do it. We really
don't have to reinvent the this wheel. There are schools in this
district and all over this country dealing with similar population. And
being very successful with it. It's not an impossibility. It's not a
mountain to high.
Kerry [50:48]
Earlier
you talked about how much DeKalb county school system has changed
regarding its demographics. From a student's perspective a change in
technology is also taking place but is not necessarily at a great pace.
During Clinton's administration, they called for an investment in
technology. That's something that's been pushed nationally ever since.
In your fiscal plan, how are you planning to advance technology with
the schools?
Michael Thurmond [51:10]
I
want to thank the voters for approving the most recent ESPLOST.
Included in that I think was $40 million dollars that will be invested
in improving technology throughout the district. Right now we are
already working in 37 schools to install wireless connectivity. 7 have
been completed. We expect to have the entire district completed by
September this year. And 100% connectivity on hard wire. We're gonna
have smart boards in every classroom. The money has already, you all
voted for it, and it is being implemented as we speak. And this will
maintain DeKalb's position as a state, regional and national leader in
technological innovation in our schools.
Kadeem [52:00]
You
can put 100 ipads in a classroom, but if you don't have an adequate
teacher to teach the information to the student, how would you keep the
seasoned teachers in the classroom?
Michael Thurmond [52:11]
We
have teachers that love DeKalb county. And sometimes, when it's a
difficult decision, no matter how much you love teaching, you still have
to pay your bills. Often times our teachers may leave DeKalb to go to
other districts. What we are doing, what I'm going to try and do going
forward. Number one, maintain as many of our veteran teachers as
possible. But also, to build a cadre of new teachers who are motivated
and understand they are a part of something. One of the things I would
say is, remember who is in the room when the times were hard. Remember
who stayed with you when your business was just starting and when you
weren't getting your bills paid, or when began your political career and
no one knew who you were or what your name was. Those are the people
you want by your side. So, what I'm saying to the stake holders and
teachers and everyone in DeKalb, remember who was in the room cause in
the near future, DeKalb will be recognized as a national model for how
you deal with highly diverse, very different socio-economic group. You
can't see it now, but you'll see it. You'll come back and say, Yeah,
you told me. This is where we are going. This is the direction we're
moving in. Sometimes we see challenges that in life, but sometimes your
blessings are a disguise. Out of controversy and conflict, you can
create great opportunity. I think that is what is happening here in
DeKalb.
Kerrie [53:41]
Another
thing about teachers leaving. A lot of them that I know of say that
they think that it's parents. How do you want to improve parent
involvement like PTA and expand programs and communications between
teacher and parents?
Michael Thurmond [54:02]
Please explain further.
Kerrie [54:08]
A
lot of my teachers say that parents aren't necessarily involved. They
don't know what's going on in the classroom. And they are focused on
their child, self driven and it's not really relating to what's going on
in the classroom. And it's making a burden on the teacher. And that's
one of the reason they are leaning towards ...
Michael Thurmond [54:33]
I
agree with you 100%. If you look throughout the district, and one of
the other ways this manifests itself, is in this whole North/South
divide. Part of the narrative is, and some of it's true is that schools
in the North have more resources than schools in the South. That is
the demarcation line in DeKalb county. Bridging that will be a
challenge. But let me tell you one of the things that going to your
question. You might walk into Fernbank or one of the schools in the
North and you might see all new band equipment. Right? And the first
thought is Michael Thurmond sent a check to the north side to buy new
band equipment, but he didn't send one down south side. What we ignore
is, through PTAs, parents raise and contribute hundreds of thousands of
dollars to support the education. They do. That help creates
dissension in the district because you have some schools where you have
really outstanding parental involvement and then you have some where
there is not. What you are seeing is the dichotomy in funding but not
necessarily from the central office. I know what you're thinking.
Obviously some parents. I have more money to contribute than another
parent. You've got to recognize that. That's why we have to put in
support. I've also done a whole lot of men day and women day speeches.
We raise a lot of money don't we. Some folk don't get that. Alright
... I'll leave that.
Denis O’Hayer [57:07]
You
talked about finding a new Superintendent. How long will you be in
this job as interim and would you be interested in the job permanently?
Michael Thurmond [57:13]
I
came to help. I'm on leave from my law firm, but what I said the first
day when Marshal Orson and those called me over and Jim. I'm here to
help. That's what I'm here to do. As long as they need me to help,
I'll help. As the interim, I know I have some tough decisions to make.
The next Superintendent shouldn't be burden with some of the tough
decisions that I'm going to have to make. That's one of the reasons,
part of the strategy that I came as an interim. I'm not here trying to
make a way for the future. These issues have to be addressed now and
that will increase the probability of success for your next
Superintendent.
Denis O’Hayer [57:55]
So there's no definite timeline? It's just as long as it takes?
Michael Thurmond [57:59]
I have a 12 month contract. Robert Brown was the monitor from the Governor's office. He's here.
Denis O’Hayer [58:19]
Just
as a quick example to follow up. One of the neighboring districts,
Earl Davis came in for what he thought was going to be a particular
period of time and he's staying just a little longer. Is that something
you're thinking "OK. After 12 months I might have to stick around"?
Michael Thurmond [58:49]
No,
no. I'm here to do what I was called to do. I'll be honest with you.
The morning Marshal and those called me, I didn't wake up. I wonder if
they are going to call me over at the DeKalb school district. That was
not on my agenda. But I believe the steps are ordered, I'm here for a
purpose, for a moment and to do a certain job. And then I'll be
perfectly willing to go back to doing what I was doing before they
called.
Denis O’Hayer [59:12]
Will there have to be a Superintendent in place before you go?
Michael Thurmond [59:13]
Absolutely.
You can't leave the job vacant. We'll have a great Superintendent in
place. And he or she won't come into the situation that I walked in to.
People deserve better than that. That will give the next
Superintendent a much greater probability of success.
